Drumming up new orders for the 787 seems to be improving.
Yesterday Bloomberg news reported that Boeing was in talks with Ethiopian to purchase 8 787-8 all of which would come from the stock of existing 787s already assembled and parked on Everett's Runway 11/29 or at the EMC otherwise known as the "Terrible Teens."
This is addition to the two terrible teens that Boeing has firmly sold to Air Austral the Reunion based vacation airline news of which I broke last week. Boeing sold them LN 15 and LN 22. The latter was to be delivered later this year but it now appears it will be delivered in May of 2016 while LN 15 will be delivered around October of the same year.
Getting 10 of these airplanes (out of 12) will be a huge boost to Boeing in reducing their inventory while the airlines will still be getting good fuel efficient aircraft at a fraction of their worth.
787s orders are not done as ANA still has to firm up 3 787-10 that they intend to take and QANTAS, who reported excellent earning today, are looking to firm 50 787 options that they hold for delivery starting later this decade. Turkish Airlines is also expected to place an order for either the 787 or A350 this year which can be significant while Emirates looks to choose between the 787-10 and the A350-900 possibly around spring to summer time.
Boeing is planning to increase production to 12 airplanes next year. This increase is expected to meet not just new orders but conversions of purchase rights and options into firm orders by existing customers. The options and rights need to be exercised by a particular date and with the existing firm order pipeline being filled, attention will now turned to the additional orders from existing clients.
Wednesday, February 25, 2015
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Any comments on Emirates decision to replace a 787-8 with one of their new A350s for the Doha-Frankfurt route? AVWeek reported this week that Emirates were using the Airbus to secure coveted spots in Frankfurt.
http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/airbus-prepares-handover-second-a350-week.
Their rationale was alarming, "Qatar Airways has replaced a Boeing 787-8 on the Doha-Frankfurt route with its first A350 and it is making Frankfurt the initial destination for the second aircraft. Qatar Airways is currently lobbying for better access to the German market and has used the A350 to showcase what it perceives as its superior product compared to Lufthansa."
Was the "superior product" the A350 against Lufthansa's product or against the 787-8? Does Boeing have any comment on this and will it influence potential sales to Emirates?
Emirates doesn't have the 787-8 or the A350.
My apologies. QATAR.
Qatar ordered 30 787-8s. They've received 12 and will take 9 more this year and the last 3 next year. I can't imagine that they're not going to use them on any routes. If the A350 is so superior what metric are they using? It sounds like a whole lot of Trump-like hyperbole being spewed by Qatar.
David, regarding the article you posted, I would think the details regarding the length of time between delivery of the 1st and 2nd A350, as well as Airbus missing their own stated production target of 3 per month at the start of 2015, would play a much larger role in Emirates decisions. No aircraft is "superior" if an airline isn't able to have it in service in a reasonable amount of time.
I would agree. I was taken aback by the thinking that replacing a 787-8 with an A350 would result in a "superior" product. We all have our favorites but wouldn't that opinion reside in the mind of the customer? Has anything shown that Qatar's decision is based on data or that it has some logic behind it?
When I read this, I was under the impression that Qatar's comment regarding "superior product" was indicating that Qatar's product (service, seats, baggage handling, 1st class, biz class, coach, etc.) was superior to Lufthansa's product.
I don't think it was directed at the airplane itself and that Qatar would make this comment regardless of what aircraft they put on the route in comparison to Lufthansa.
Maybe. But why pull a state of the art 787-8 out in favor of an A350?
German is a major supporter of Airbus, which is a rival of Boeing. You'd hope that wouldn't factor into the decision, but it isn't hard to imagine how it could.
@David Bacon and others
Let me try. First of all, overall (all the new technologies and features considered) 787 is THE most advanced twin-engine, twin-aisle wide-body aircraft, period. A350 is the second most advanced.
Qatar got their 787s first (ahead of A350), so they deployed them on many direct routes, in some cases replacing old A330s on old routes, and in some cases opening brand new routes. The destinations include Europe, India, Japan, other (East) Asian countries, South Africa, etc.
Qatar's 787-8s are smaller in size compared to the A350-900 they just received. Naturally they would use A350s on routes that they found have greater demands in capacity, therefore replacing 787-8s, which will in turn be used to open up new, long and thin routes, which was what the 787-8 was designed for.
(Had cookie trouble, this repeats if previous submission did not work.)
@David Bacon and others
Let me try. First of all, overall (all the new technologies and features considered) 787 is THE most advanced twin-engine, twin-aisle wide-body aircraft, period. A350 is the second most advanced.
Qatar got their 787s first (ahead of A350), so they deployed them on many direct routes, in some cases replacing old A330s on old routes, and in some cases opening brand new routes. The destinations include Europe, India, Japan, other (East) Asian countries, South Africa, etc.
Qatar's 787-8s are smaller in size compared to the A350-900 they just received. Naturally they would use A350s on routes that they found have greater demands in capacity, therefore replacing 787-8s, which will in turn be used to open up new, long and thin routes, which was what the 787-8 was designed for.
Perhaps might want to consider adding Hainan to the list of 787 top-up sales. See comments from Hainan U.S. Executive Director
Quoted from article:
"We absolutely love the 787," said Joel Chusid, U.S. executive director for Hainan. "We can't get enough of them." Hainan has taken delivery of eight of the 10 787s it ordered, with two more coming in March. The line awaiting deliveries is long, but Hainan likes to think it can find a way to get more aircraft.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/13057354/1/boston-and-san-jose-get-china-routesthanks-to-boeing-787.html
ET might have just 'cut the line' to increase their count of 788s. This is great news. It also implies Boeing has too long of a backlog for many new orders. I hope the line rate increase goes on schedule.
Neil aka Lightsaber on a.net
Uresh, Is there a chance that LN22, currently earmarked for Air Austral might go to another customer (Ethiopian ?) since it will be ready long before the 2016 delivery date? This would require an engine switch from RR to GE.
Nope, Air Austral is firm Ethiopian isn't so they've already been allocated to Air Austral.
Uresh,
Here is my 2015 in the works for orders to be confirmed May will be confirmed in the next weeks.
2 Booked already in 2015
50 Qantas 787-9 options leaning
8 "Teen Old Maid"s partnered (Ethiopian)
2 "Teen Old Maids" partnered (Air Austral)
4 Tahiti Nui 787-9's almost booked
3 ANA 787-10 order to be signed on.
14 787-9s from Spain’s Air Europa
Air Tahiti Nui is taking 2 on lease and buying 2 from Boeing.
David, I was at Frankfurt about three weeks ago, and the passageway between the Main Terminal and the Train Station/Hotels is plastered with DOH-FRA on the A350 advertisements, with one or two Emirates adds mixed in.
@Randall Schrock
No surprise there. Qatar likes 787s, but they love Airbus. They only ordered 30 787-8s (plus 30 options), but they ordered 80 A350s straight and firm (including all variants, even the -800s, which, as a stillborn due in part to the superior 787-9, were later forced to be converted to -900s and/or -1000s). Perhaps the GSEs have something in common; perhaps U-turn Al just loves the fashion models in Paris more. Who knows? The 787-8 is the smallest among them all, with -9 and -10 roughly equivalent in size to -800 and -900. I'm sure Qatar would have ordered from Airbus if they had offered one the size of the -8; they don't, so U-turn Al had no choice there (at that size) but to order from Boeing.
The 777-300ER and 777-9X are a similar story. Qatar ordered them because there are no similar offering from Airbus (at the top end of the twin-aisle, twin-engine commercial aircraft spectrum). We know they like 777-300ER every much because of its outstanding reliability and performance.
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